What Is Cultural Leadership?
An Interview with R.H. Thompson and Danielle Irvine

By John Custodio

The Cultural and Artistic Leadership Program (CALP) was designed to encourage and nurture emerging leaders. But what does “Cultural and Artistic Leadership” mean, exactly? Difficult as it is to come up with a snap definition, it’s easy enough to recognize when you see it in action, and there’s no disputing the leadership qualities of the artists we’ve interviewed for this issue.

R.H. Thomson was last featured in this magazine in 1997, when the School, which he attended for two years, presented him with its Gascon-Thomas Award for “exceptional contribution to the growth of theatre in Canada,” and for being “an inspiration to students.”

Danielle Irvine’s (Directing 1996) last appearance in these pages was in 2002, when she was awarded the Canada Council’s John Hirsch Prize for “emerging theatre directors who demonstrate great potential and exciting artistic vision.” She won the Siminovich protégé award two years later, with Jillian Keiley as her mentor.

Thomson’s renown as an actor is matched by his reputation as a passionate cultural activist, and Irvine has taken a break from directing—“just for a while,” she says—in order to work as a lobbyist for the Association of Cultural Industries, a Newfoundland arts-advocacy organization. It should come as no surprise, then, that when asked how they would define “cultural leadership”, they agreed: it’s more than just honing your craft.

DANIELLE IRVINE: ALL IN THE LIFE OF A THEATRE ARTIST

Danielle Irvine – © Deena Riggs

“True leaders take responsibility for their actions. They’re not afraid of being held accountable for them. That doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be a firebrand, but it does mean putting yourself out there and facing the naysayers. Too many of us pass the buck, but if you’ve been responsible enough to really think things through, then you shouldn’t be afraid. That alone makes you a trailblazer in this world.

Every one of us has to take some part in making this a better world to live in. Artists have their part to play too. Often we’re more visible, more “out there,” and when that’s the case, I think our responsibility is that much greater. The more access you have to creative outlets, the bigger your obligation. That doesn’t mean everything you do as an artist has to be for a cause; I believe in art for art’s sake too, but we have duties as citizens that we shouldn’t shirk. Art shouldn’t be an excuse to hide behind.

It can be hard-going sometimes, that’s for sure, because we’re either seen as crazy militants or know-nothing marshmallows. Rare are the artists who can withstand the mockery and criticism directed their way when they dare to actually take a stand. Artists have as much right to be heard and taken seriously as any lawyer or businessperson. Sadly, we enter the political arena with a clear disadvantage; before we even utter a word, we’re brushed off as flakes.

“I believe in art for art’s sake too, but we have duties as citizens that we shouldn’t shirk. Art shouldn’t be an excuse to hide behind.”
– Danielle Irvine

Artists are heard only when it’s convenient. This incenses me! It’s a prejudice that I find myself up against all the time. They had to drag me out of the Employment Insurance office once because I lost my temper when the bureaucrat I was dealing with had the nerve to say to my face that artists get too many handouts. See what I mean? Businesses get grants and tax breaks, but artists and arts organizations get handouts.

When a ski resort gets a tourism grant from the government, they’re told they’ll get it by a certain date, and they get it by that date. I was on the board of a theatre company that had been told that its grant would be deposited into its account by February. We didn’t get that money until October of the following year! It was incidents like these that led to my decision to take time off from directing, which was not an easy one to make.

I have the equivalent of two university degrees, I’ve won awards, and all I really want to do is direct theatre full-time. But I can’t, not in Newfoundland. To make the point, when people asked me what I do, I always answer “director, production manager, teacher, bookstore clerk, and tour guide.” You cannot make ends meet as an artist in Newfoundland, which is a pity because there is so much talent here.

When it’s convenient, the government will recognize that talent. They’ll puff their chests out and talk about the “vibrant and exciting cultural milieu” in Newfoundland, but does that translate into more funding of the arts? No. It’s like they expect us to work for free. These are the kinds of things I want changed and that I’ll be working on in my new position as Executive Director of the Association of Cultural Industries.”

R.H. THOMSON: VISION IS EVERYTHING

R.H. Thomson in a scene from The Lost Boys at the MTC Warehouse. Written and Performed by R.H. Thomson – © Bruce Monk

“Artists by definition are non-conformist. Their gift is their vision, and whether in sculpture, music, writing, or acting, for vision to be true it must be free of fetters, be they religious, corporate, or political. Vision is everything. Leadership is a function of vision.

For many, leadership from an artist is a contradiction in terms. Artists are rarely taken seriously in the realm of politics—and perhaps after Ronald Reagan, who can blame people? But more often than not, they’re derided for entering it. Margaret Atwood or Bob Geldof or Bono speaks out and the usual letters to the editor condemning them appear, and the underlying message is always the same: “How dare they? Let them stick to their books or their concerts.”

Charles Dickens is one of my great heroes of social activism. He wrote again and again about the abject poor. His novels contain sketches of small businessmen of the 19th century complaining about having to pay taxes and the government spending all their money on the poor. Taxes were tiny in the 1860s. But those 19th century voices are still singing the same song today. Dickens wrote of greed, poverty, need, want, ignorance, disparity. “A Christmas Carol,” despite its sentimentalism, is a strong anti-poverty message, a message of conscience and compassion. And it’s so relevant. Look what’s happening in New Orleans.

“If promoting cultural diversity in the face of encroaching powers of trade and investment treaties means having to learn policy-speak, you learn policy-speak.” – R.H. Thompson

Vision is everything. The more you see, the more responsibility you inherit. Being an artist at times means more than being able to warble sweetly, dance prettily, or emote convincingly. It can mean doing more than you bargained for. I certainly didn’t become an actor to learn about “non-derogation” clauses. But if promoting cultural diversity in the face of encroaching powers of trade and investment treaties means having to learn policy-speak, you learn policy-speak. In order to play hockey, you gotta know how to skate.

I’m proud of the way Canadian artists fought for a global treaty on culture. Few believed our initiative was realistic. But we knew we had to play an endgame strategy to have any chance of success. Unbelievably, enough governments were convinced, enough culture ministers prodded, and enough drafts offered by arts organizations, and now UNESCO is in the process of drafting a treaty, which we hope will make it very clear that global rules of trade do not apply to the world’s culturals1.

This fight goes far beyond Canadian culture. I was on a British Airways night flight from London to Cape Town that took us over major countries of both Europe and Africa. For hours I surfed what the airline called “36 Channels of Programming Gold; The Best of International Programming”. That ‘Gold’ was three British or American comedy shows, two news channels, two sports channels and everything else was U.S. crime drama.

In the darkness passing beneath me most countries of Africa and Europe lay silent, unrepresented in the best of international programming. It was as if they had nothing to offer. Their silencing was appalling. Their silencing was enraging. It is a poorer world when entire cultures are excluded from the story-telling. The present impetus behind The World Trade Organization has no real interest in the diversity of cultures. By default it favours the narratives of the powerful. Not good enough.

Think of how you or I would feel if we were left silent and in the dark, shut out from our means of artistic expression. Now imagine that resentment on a global scale. That is a powerful feeling and certainly enough to get me out of bed each morning. That and looking forward to being in the rehearsal hall again.”

The UNESCO has formally adopted the Convention on the Protection of the Diversity of Cultural Contents and Artistic Expressions on October 20, 2005.

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